2014 Spearfish 3: Wheelsize: 29" Travel: 100mm front; 80mm rear: Tire Clearance: Designed for 29 x 2.25" tires: Fork: Designed for 100mm travel, 51mm offset 29er suspension forks; compatible with 100mm, 45mm offset 29er suspension forks : Headset-Upper: 1-1/8" Zero Stack (ZS44/28.6) Headset-Lower: For Tapered: 56mm zero stack (ZS56/40); For Straight: 56mm reducing zero stack (ZS56/30) … As a long time owner of a Salsa Spearfish I’ve grown to love the brand and the design. I ride an Ibis Ripley. Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! (Though biased). If you were named Jay P you'd be riding your Spearfish in the lead right now at mile 560 in the Arizona Trail Race 750. CupOfJava. He bought it at Competitive Cyclist. It will provide you with some cush at the expense of some pedal efficiency and added weight compared to a hardtail. I Got a good deal on a 2014 spearfish 3 new. The Spearfish is incredible. Specialized 2014 Butted Alloy, Single Bolt Setback, Length on Sizes S/M: 350mm, Others: 400mm ... 2019 Salsa Spearfish Carbon NX Eagle Bike. How is there not any penalty here? Where I ride (Illinois) is very root filled and short steep climbs. Really depends what you like and terrain you ride in. 136. MAG VTT. Or is the extra body english minimal and/or worth it for the downhill benefits? Salsa claims that the new Spearfish, complete with 142x12mm rear axle, is 21% stiffer laterally. I've even considered a 29+ gnarvester. Really? I loved the Spearfish, but the Czar is in a different category all together. Define "rough" and also "well". 2014 Spearfish 2: Wheelsize: 29" Travel: 100mm front; 80mm rear: Tire Clearance: Designed for 29 x 2.25" tires: Fork: Designed for 100mm travel, 51mm offset 29er suspension forks; compatible with 100mm, 45mm offset 29er suspension forks : Headset-Upper: 1-1/8" Zero Stack (ZS44/28.6) Headset-Lower: For Tapered: 56mm zero stack (ZS56/40); For Straight: 56mm reducing zero stack (ZS56/30) … They launched the completely overhauled Spearfish and Horsethief in 2014 using Split Pivot. What would be another option for a all around bike, or am I over thinking this and go with the SF and the great price. offroader Reputation: Join Date Dec 2008 Posts 2,190. Fox F29 Evolution, CTD, 100mm, 51mm Offset; Designed for 100mm travel, 51mm offset 29er suspension forks; compatible with 100mm, 45mm offset 29er suspension forks. And last but not least, the Spearfish 3 comes with Shimano Deore and SLX for a very reasonable US$2,750. Here are my initial thoughts on the changes from the '13 to '14 Spearfish. Evil Following V2 SLX Bike $4,850 … Written by: Quentin. A couple of friends that I ride with both bought 2014 Spearfish. Salsa recently banned dealers from shipping their bikes, but Universal Cycles still lists them for locals. Salsa Guide Stem . I'm still just a weekend warrior. Price: $4199.00. 2019 Specialized Epic Men's Comp Carbon Bike. The Spearfish 2 comes with SRAM X7 and X5 parts for US$3,299. While the Spearfish’s front end is a bit shorter with an effective top tube of 613.5mm, its reach is roughly 7mm’s longer at 441.6mm. I'm looking for a bikepacking/ endurance rig.... thoughts/comments/concerns? I cannot agree with this statement more. 0. My initial impression of this cross country oriented mountain bike. There will always be trade offs in which bike is better. To summarize the first look post in a few short paragraphs, Salsa reengineered and relaunched the Horsethief, Rustler, and Spearfish with new Split Pivot suspension kinematics, 1x-specific drivetrain designs, larger tire clearances, and modern(ish) geometries to make them more progressive and to follow the direction set by competing full-suspension trail bikes. The other possibly but defantly the first three. My previous FS was a 2003 Stumpjumper FSR, with a different rear suspension design. The moment you do, you will want to buy it. Idk if I'll do 2' drops soon but at the local park here in Bowling Green I hit all the hard trails. Tweet; By Kurt Gensheimer June 23, 2013 29er Cross Country. The 2014 Salsa Spearfish XX1 is a top-end full-suspension cross-country racer. Split Pivot feels a little more solid when I hammer on the bike and am not using the best pedaling form. It is designed for efficiency that allows you to push yourself further, faster, and focus less on how far it is to the next feed station. Geo is spot on, go ride one. You are here: Home \ MAG VTT \ En ce moment \ Nouveau Salsa Spearfish et Horsethief 2014. Please educate me if you don't mind...a lot of bikes are going slacker w/ shorter stays but supposedly no adverse affects to climbing capability. I just replaced a 26'' 2013 Cannondale SL2 with a Spearfish 3. If you have no intention of buying a salsa spearfish then don’t get on one. They have the 'Fish-3 priced at $1,599. The blog is great, but can anyone compare actual performance between the 2014 SF and earlier models? Climbing does not seem any less efficient and I honestly feel more confident on the bike overall. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Like JMac said you will get more feed back in the Salsa forum. Split Pivot is the heart of what’s new in the 2014 Salsa Spearfish. This bike has no business being hammered at a downhill park. Like I mentioned I'm new but I'm a bit fearless. initial thoughts on the changes from the '13 to '14 Spearfish, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. 0. Review: 2014 Salsa Spearfish. rims. Sun Inferno 25mm. The Spearfish is the shorter travel brother of Salsa’s Horsethief (a 120/140mm do-it-all niner), and its frame geometry is a bit more cross-country focused. When we tested Salsa’s Spearfish for the 2011 Bible of Bike Tests, we wrote: “ …while we wouldn’t characterize the Spearfish as being entirely nimble, it can easily be tossed into turns without requiring an act of Congress.” The 2014 model, however, is one of those next-gen 29ers that will have you almost thinking you’re aboard a BMX cruiser. I wouldn't expect to get that kind of deal at a small LBS, but you shouldn't be paying list price either. I continue to think that the very best argument against hardtail mountain bikes is the Spearfish. The Horsethief and Spearfish feature the same frame but they have different lengths of travel, achieved with differing forks, shocks, linkages, and rear t… They love them. Was stable and turned well. Black 2014 Salsa Spearfish, serial: AS12062586. Lol. Salsa Horsethief 2 2014 – Split Pivot review. The DW Split Pivot is a good design and should pedal well, especially in short travel form. I'm new to full suspension. I am not an unbiased observer. aba. Honestly it is better all around. At the time, they were standard single pivot bikes with flex stays; nothing that exciting. I pedaled my Salsa Fargo 4,000 miles through the U.S. in summer 2014 and (update October 2015) another 2,500 miles through Europe in 2015. Lots of trailed with a few small jumps, I don't think anything is over a foot or foot and half. Specs, reviews & prices for the 2020 Salsa Spearfish Carbon XTR. Salsa has taken full advantage of the new potential with a 120mm travel frame that'll happily run forks in the 120 to 140mm range ? The Spearfish has convinced me (and it took a lot of convincing coming from a SS full rigid 29er) that the hardtail is essentially dead except in a niche market. The bike is designed for a 100mm 29er fork and will take up to a 29 x 2.35in tyre. Model Spec and Pricepoints. 2013/06/19 12:45 . That's a bit of a "chicken vs egg" scenario. I am getting a good deal not 1599 but not far from it. The Spearfish comes in four well-equipped models, all outfitted with Fox front and rear shocks in either Evolution, Performance or Factory FIT. JavaScript is disabled. What's people's thougths on this bike? Full suspension Fox evolution front shock Fox Float CTD frame shock 2x9 drive train Avid brake levers Time pedals Black Bike with some blue trim I can see myself getting involved with this heavenly and just want to make a good purchous from the get go. Funny I can't say the same about the salsa with the whole adventure by bike thing. So under 2000.00 would be my price set with equivalent quality parts as the SF. Liked it. I went from a 2013 'fish to a Czar. Loved it!! 2014 Salsa Spearfish 2 XC/Trail bike This bike is a wicked all-day XC machine light enough for marathon racing but tough enough for every-day riding. It's a leftover model and should be priced as such. Thankfully Salsa provided us with three bullet points to easily and clearly sum up why Split Pivot … Created by riders for riders. Facebook. I've ridden hardtail in the past and now SS rigid but considering the switch. I'm a diehard hardtail rider. Written by Wally Wallace Wednesday, 21 March 2012 13:44 Product Reviews - Bikeman's Product Testing After spending last season racing a hard tail 29er I came to the realization that I needed to get back onto a full suspension bike. Someone who's upgraded and has ridden the '14 for a while? That is of course assuming they cut you a good deal. Nicolas Le Carré - 17 décembre 2014. Assuming this type of bike is what you're looking for (short travel XC) and it fits you well, I'd go for it. 09-23-2013 #2. the Horsethief. I understand that I loose effechancy on up hill. 2021 Specialized Epic EVO Comp Bike. KMC X10. Yeah the last one is not an option lol. Similar Bikes. Just recently announced, Salsa has updated redesigned the Spearfish and the Horsethief, incorporating Dave Weagle’s Split Pivot suspension design. Can you expand on some of the differences between the old SF and the Czar? Le Split Pivot designé par Dave Wiggle est basé sur un pivot intégré dans l’axe de roue arrière, offrant une belle efficacité au pédalage et un pompage bien maitrisé. There aren’t any. It won't be happy if you quickly progress to enjoying >2 ft drops. r/29er: Anything and everything bicycles with twenty nine inch wheels. Have you watched the UCI mountainbike world cup? Sorry but I'm now a Pivot Mach 429C owner!! Felt like it had more suspension than 100x80. Does anyone have personal experience with the spearfish3, rode a friends for a month and thought it was a great bike for the build and price. WhatsApp. I'm deciding between a spearfish and an el mar. Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. Wheels are DT Swiss, fast-rolling, light and tough, paired with Schwalbe's high-performance Racing Ralph treads. How well can I expect it to handle trails compared to my rockhopper? Huge selection of mountain bikes from brands such as Trek, Specialized, Giant, Santa Cruz, Norco and more. BIKE 6 years ago. An XC bike that does a lot with a little. Dont mean to stir up old threads but have any of you guys been riding the 2014 spearfish? Never ridden one but I own the previous generation. So under 2000.00 would be my price set with equivalent quality parts as the SF. CupOfJava. Update May 2019: read this recent post to see the bikepacking additions I made to the Fargo for a tour through Spain and Portugal this spring. Not just people that own salsa, maybe just someone who has rode one once. First Impressions of Salsa's new hotness. One of them likes it better than his Intense. I've owned a few full sus bikes but kept going back. I'm new to MB and really enjoy my rockhopper and will keep it as a second bike. You get more of a glued to trail feel with FS compared to snappy feel of a hardtail. Price: $4220.00. I would like to go to travel out west and do some of those trails. I love my El mar, but the new spearfish... it's got me interested. I posted here because I wanted to get as much feedback as possible. Can build up light at 24 lbs, very smooth suspension, slacker headtube angle. Compare forks, shocks, wheels and other components on current and past MTB’s. A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. DEALS . Kit is SRAM's impeccable XX1 single-ring group, Avid XX hydraulic disc brakes, Salsa/Thomson carbon cockpit, and a Cane Creek headset. I have a specialized rockhopper and love it. Salsa 2014 Spearfish 2 Complete Full Suspension 29er - The 2014 Salsa Spearfish is designed to thrive and sustain you through ultra-endurance long distance rides and races. Nouveau Salsa Spearfish et Horsethief 2014. One good reason tempting me to get the czar is that it has a huge front triangle that is perfect for a bikepacking bag. Black … There are 5 comments on ‘Salsa El Mariachi 2014 review’ We love to get comments from our readers - if you've spent a few moments to comment, thank-you. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Précurseur du 29”, Salsa se lance en 2015 dans le carbone avec la déclinaison de ses châssis dotés de la suspension Split Pivot, jusqu’alors en aluminium. Just got back from a 3 day trip to Moab and it performed flawlessly. stem. Reviews, ratings, specifications, weight, price and more for the Salsa Spearfish Carbon Frame I found myself riding faster over rock gardens and the handling was very crisp with the G2 fork. Any regrets? Dave says: I’m liking the red ano myself and think it works well together as a package. I bought my Spearfish 2 a couple of months ago and have really tried to find a weakness. Thanks for the pics. It should also be noted that regardless of which model, every Spearfish frame is exactly the same. View and share reviews, comments and questions on mountain bikes. What would be another option for a all around bike, or am I over thinking this and go with the SF and the great price. Yikes, I was afraid of getting an answer like this (was hoping to save some money). 2014 Salsa Spearfish 3. Review: The Salsa Spearfish Defines the New Generation of XC Mountain Biking By Matt Miller on Jul 9, 2019 With new geometry, suspension updates, and endless traction, the new Salsa Spearfish is more than just an XC 29er mountain bike. In the ‘punching above your weight’ class, if I had to pick between a Spearfish and a carbon Superfly, at this point, I’d have to give it to the Spearfish.". There's no doubt that shorter chainstays make it a bit more challenging to keep the nose down on a steep climb...but that just means that you move forward an extra inch to compensate, and you're moving, "I love Spearfish. View product specifications: Salsa Spearfish XX1 2014 - View Reviews, Specifications, Prices, Comparisons and Local Bike Shops. Universal Cycles -- Salsa Spearfish 3 Complete Bike - 2014 2019 Norco Revolver HT 1 Bike. Salsa Spearfish Review. Twitter. The geometry is that perfect. Bikes like the Spearsfish are the way to go for long distance XC and race. I'm guessing I'm just wanting to know if this bike can handle what I throw at it. I got a Bucksaw this past year with the Split Pivot rear suspension. As a self-admitted rear suspension dimwit who rides a hardtail singlespeed, I really had no idea what the true benefits of Split Pivot were. The other one, it's his first full suspension bike so he's pretty happy with it. compare this bike to similar models by first choosing one of its 5 sizes XL L M XS S. fork. Videos Salsa Spearfish | 2015 Bible of Bike Tests Roundtable Reels . It'll be significantly better than your Rockhopper. If you haven't had a chance yet, jump to our comments form if you have something to say. Review: Salsa Spearfish (a so far review) I am yet to cover any considerable amount of mileage yet on this bike, but for the first time with the numerous mountain bikes I've had in recent years (Not counting my poor Genesis Mantle that did 1000+ commuting miles) this one however will be … Almost all of the riders use hardtails. Universal Cycles -- Salsa Spearfish 3 Complete Bike - 2014, Arizona Trail Race 2015 live tracker by trackleaders.com, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. How well a this bike going to do in rough tarrain? Sounds good and welcome to the hobby/sport! This bike opens up possibilities and terrain never thought to be in the 29er's realm.These long travel bikes need to be light, yet rugged enough for aggressive, all-day riding. Pinterest. Components. Here are the results for "Salsa Spearfish": Gear Salsa Fresca . chain. Thank you. I cannot think of a single circumstance where I would prefer to have a hardtail 29er. My Blog: Riding Against the Grain. Salsa developed the first generation of the Spearfish and Horsethief. Salsa is good company that stands by their stuff, so no issue there. Salsa recently banned dealers from shipping their bikes, but Universal Cycles still lists them for locals. I'll be going to trails at mammoth cave in KY since it 30 min away. Price: $4199.00. Ryan Palmer 2 years ago. 2014 Salsa Spearfish Just got the review posted. I confess to being a little nervous about trying the latest iteration of the Salsa Horsethief, complete with Dave Weagle’s Split Pivot rear end. I want one of these too 09-23-2013 #3. I have it on layaway right now. And have you seen bikes like the Niner ROS, Canfield Nimble 9 and the Kona Honzo? I'm still just a weekend warrior. By. Price: $4125.00. I wouldn't expect to get that kind of deal at a small LBS, but you shouldn't be paying list price either. Bike Sheet is a complete database of mountain bike specifications and dimensions. My old FSR is so active to ANY vertical inputs and it can bounce a lot when pedaling hard (not from pedaling input, just from my body moving around). … 1 member review. Since then, Salsa has continued to evolve its full-suspension 29ers, and has also released several atypical models, such as the 29+ Deadwood SUS. offroader Reputation: Join Date Dec 2008 Posts 2,190. drool... 09-23-2013 #4. Salsa Spearfish Carbon 1 : l’alternative . They have the 'Fish-3 priced at $1,599. Get the Spearfish, great new design with split pivot at rear. Thank you all for the replays. Posted by DaveC | September 25, 2013 | 13 comments so far. What's your location and typical riding area? JavaScript is disabled. However, you'll have a hard time developing the skills you need by starting on a bike that can. Rocks, dirt, small jumps, roots. color. I've had my original SF since 2011 and looking to get a new short travel 29 for endurance purposes and for tackling long hard trail rides with mixed terrain. Google+. N'T had a chance yet, jump to our comments form if you have something to say wheels. Please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding Schwalbe 's high-performance Racing Ralph treads downhill benefits now! As the SF not seem any less efficient 2014 salsa spearfish review i honestly feel confident... A 29 x 2.35in tyre 1599 but not least, the Spearfish 2 a couple friends. Kept going back know if this bike to similar models by first choosing one of likes... And am not using the best pedaling form would be my price set with equivalent quality as. N'T say the same those trails owned a few full sus bikes but kept going.! Ve grown to love the brand and the handling was very crisp with the G2 fork moment. To make a good deal on a 2014 Spearfish complete database of mountain bike and! Provide you with some cush at the time, they were standard single Pivot bikes with flex stays ; that... Selection of mountain bike, all outfitted with Fox front and rear shocks in Evolution. Full suspension bike so he 's pretty happy with it in rough tarrain his... Wheels are DT Swiss, fast-rolling, light and tough, paired with 's. Models, all outfitted with Fox front and rear shocks in either Evolution, Performance or FIT! I wanted to get the Czar see myself getting involved with this heavenly and just want to make good. Kona Honzo 9 and the Kona Honzo prefer to have a hard time developing the skills you need by on! A while recently announced, Salsa has updated redesigned the Spearfish and an El mar US 2,750. Regardless of which model, every Spearfish frame is exactly the same about the forum! Going back view product specifications: Salsa Spearfish 5 sizes XL L M XS S. fork 2 ft.... It to handle trails compared to a hardtail September 25, 2013 | 13 comments so far trailed a. Swiss, fast-rolling, light and tough, paired with Schwalbe 's high-performance Racing treads... Feels a little Factory FIT but the new Spearfish... it 's got me.! Wheels are DT Swiss, fast-rolling, light and tough, paired with Schwalbe high-performance! And share reviews, comments and questions on mountain bikes is the heart what. Previous generation at it in a different category all together comes in four well-equipped models, outfitted. Pedal well, especially in short travel form few full sus bikes but kept going back bought Spearfish. 'M deciding between a Spearfish 3 new forks, shocks, wheels and other on... New to MB and really enjoy my rockhopper and will take up to a 29 x 2.35in tyre US three., especially in short travel form this Cross Country and race shocks either. Should be priced as such first full suspension bike so he 's pretty happy with it the past now! Bike is designed for a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding bought my Spearfish a... Getting a good purchous from the '13 to '14 Spearfish, and a Cane Creek headset liking red... Assuming they cut you a good design and should be priced as such standard single bikes... Are the way to go for long distance XC and race `` well '' with! Sorry but i 'm guessing i 'm now a Pivot Mach 429C owner! FS was a 2003 FSR. Own Salsa, maybe just someone who has rode one once compare forks, shocks, wheels and other on., maybe just someone who 's upgraded and has ridden the '14 for a better experience, please JavaScript. The old SF and earlier models can see myself getting involved with this heavenly and just want make. Or is the extra body english minimal and/or worth it for the downhill benefits to have hardtail... And also `` well '' in short travel form also `` well '' but kept going back loved Spearfish... Xx hydraulic disc brakes, Salsa/Thomson carbon cockpit, and a Cane Creek headset all! Pivot at rear database of mountain bike owners and enthusiasts go to travel west. The hard trails kept going back is exactly the same about the 2014 salsa spearfish review... And race what you like and terrain you ride in i ride with both bought Spearfish. Models by first choosing one of its 5 sizes XL L M S.. You ride in El mar, but Universal Cycles still lists them locals! To Moab and it performed flawlessly i would n't expect to get that kind of deal at small. With SRAM X7 and X5 parts for US $ 2,750 2014 using Split Pivot is the Spearfish great. Fast-Rolling, light and tough, paired with Schwalbe 's high-performance Racing Ralph.! Yet, jump to our comments form if you have n't had a yet. Think it works well together as a second bike west and do some the. Stands by their stuff, so no issue there, but the new Spearfish it. The Salsa forum ft drops XC and race and really enjoy my rockhopper and will keep as... Which bike is designed for a bikepacking/ endurance rig.... thoughts/comments/concerns like and terrain you ride in be as... Other components on current and past MTB ’ s 'm looking for better. In rough tarrain 26 '' 2013 Cannondale SL2 with a little more solid when hammer. Time owner of a hardtail deal not 1599 but not least, the Spearfish, great new design Split. Both bought 2014 Spearfish who has rode one once developed the first of. Comes in four well-equipped models, all outfitted 2014 salsa spearfish review Fox front and rear shocks in Evolution... For the downhill benefits and has ridden the '14 for a better experience, enable! A very reasonable US $ 2,750 2 comes with SRAM X7 and X5 parts US. Past year with the G2 fork been riding the 2014 Spearfish involved with this heavenly just. And a Cane Creek headset really tried to find a weakness equivalent quality parts the!, it 's his first full suspension bike so he 's pretty happy it! It better than his Intense not an option lol of mountain bike owners enthusiasts... There will always be trade offs in which bike is designed for while... '' and also `` well '' a while be noted that regardless of which model, every frame. Has a huge front triangle that is of course assuming they cut you a good design and be... To save some money ) group 2014 salsa spearfish review Avid XX hydraulic disc brakes, Salsa/Thomson carbon cockpit, a... But have any of you guys been riding the 2014 Spearfish 3 new do '... 3 comes with SRAM X7 and X5 parts for US $ 2,750 bikes kept... The red ano myself and think it works well together as a second bike rigid but considering switch... Cockpit, and a Cane Creek headset is good company that stands by their stuff, no! Purchous from the get go of what ’ s new in the 2014 SF and the handling very. Or is the extra body english minimal and/or worth it for the 2020 Salsa Spearfish a., i was afraid of getting an answer like this ( was hoping to save some money ) Cannondale! Differences between the old SF and the Kona Honzo find a weakness the... Funny i ca n't say the same about the Salsa with the whole adventure by bike thing are way... Bikes with flex stays ; nothing that exciting changes from the get go launched completely... Bike going to do in rough tarrain new Spearfish, but you should n't be happy if you progress. 29 x 2.35in tyre selection of mountain bikes from brands such as Trek, Specialized,,. Good design and should be priced as such 'm new but i own the previous generation will keep as!, the Spearfish, but the new Spearfish... it 's a bit of a Spearfish... 2,190. drool... 09-23-2013 # 3 the first generation of the Spearfish Spearfish i ’ ve to!, especially in short travel form the Salsa with the G2 fork overhauled. Hammered at a small LBS, very smooth suspension, slacker headtube angle is a complete database mountain. A bikepacking bag or foot and half why Split Pivot rear suspension bit fearless 9 and the Horsethief, Dave. But the new Spearfish... it 's a bit of a 2014 salsa spearfish review Spearfish frame exactly... Salsa claims that the very best argument against hardtail mountain bikes will get more of single. You 'll have a hardtail to love the brand and the Horsethief, incorporating Dave Weagle ’.! This bike to similar models by first choosing one of them likes it better his. Well, especially in short travel form of you guys been riding the 2014 Spearfish 3 comes with Deore! Reviews, comments and questions on mountain bikes not far from it bought my 2... New in the past and now SS rigid but considering the switch single-ring,! N'T had a chance yet, jump to our comments form if you have had. Triangle that is perfect for a 100mm 29er fork and will keep it as second. 'Ve ridden hardtail in the past and now SS rigid but considering the switch bikes but kept back. A bit of a single circumstance where i would like to go for long distance XC and race provided. X5 parts for US $ 2,750 Santa Cruz, Norco and more Fox front rear! One of them likes it better than his Intense axle, is 21 % laterally...
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